Raw Supershow Thread (April 9, 2012)

[Jericho]

Agreed Turley. I didn't mind Punk as a humble mid carder, but his main event push is more forced than King's laughing on commentary.

[Turley]

Its plain as day now, Punk needed to be granted liberties that nobody else on the roster gets, just to be noticed. Nobody else has been given the scope he was given for his "shoot" promo. Brock has come back and generated more interest by simply being there. Punk is the next Edge, a midcarder that idiots think is a top guy, just because he gets a few title reigns.

[Darth Shizzel]

We could argue about Punk but we both have our opinions about him and will be argueing for a while yet.

As for the reaction Brock got well when a wrestler has been out for more then a year from the WWE they always get a great reaction

Kevin Nash and Road Dogg at the Royal Rumble

Rock when he came back in 2011

Guys mark for people who have been out for years.

[Turley]

Brock has come back and generated more interest by simply being there.

I never mentioned the initial pop. I am talking about general interest.

[thethirdwarren]

Its plain as day now, Punk needed to be granted liberties that nobody else on the roster gets, just to be noticed. Nobody else has been given the scope he was given for his "shoot" promo. Brock has come back and generated more interest by simply being there. Punk is the next Edge, a midcarder that idiots think is a top guy, just because he gets a few title reigns.

Disagree. Punk is considered a top guy because he has the talent to he a top guy. Why people like to blame talent for taking advantage of a storyline makes no sense. Was Punk supposed to say "no I don't want the push"? Seriously? If someone went to Curt Hawkins and said they wanted him to do a "shoot" promo as a push, he would do it. If a lot of people think Punk is a top guy, that in itself makes him a top guy, since people liking you makes you popular which in the wrestling business is the measurement for pushing someone. Just because you don't like the guy doesn't mean he doesn't belong if lots of other people do. I think Cena is terrible in the ring. I think the Rock is not much better than Cena. Does that mean they should be dropped in the rankings in WWE just because Warren doesn't like them? Of course not. Everyone likes who they want.

Bottom line is bashing someone for taking advantage of an opportunity in their career is ridiculous. And blaming them for doing what creative has for them is also ridiculous. Yea he should probably not be on twitter so much, but who cares? Jericho is on probably more than Punk is. Rock can't go 2 minutes in his promos now without relying on a Twitter mention. Don't demonize one guy for it if others are doing it just as much just because you don't like him. Where's the continuity?

[Turley]

you have missed my point.

Punk cant be viewed as a top guy ecause he got to the top level by capitalising on extra liberties. Nowhere did I criticise him for doing this.

I criticise him for not being able to stay on top once these liberties have gone. As soon as he wasnt given the time to cut these promos, he quickly slid back down to the field.

Also, I find the following comment interesting. Punk is considered a top guy because he has the talent to he a top guy Does that mean that Shelton Benjamin was a top guy?

[wolfie27]

Actually Shelton was going to be a top guy but he kept screwing up.

[Turley]

exactly, therefore just having the talent to be a top guy doesnt mean you are a top guy.

[TheManWithoutAFace]

What do you need to be a top guy?

[Turley]

I think you need something special. Rocky and Brock both have an aura about them, they have a presence that the normal man cannot relate to. There is something special about the two of them. WWE are trying to make us believe Cena has this x factor too, although it usually doesnt work out well when done like this. The fans and only the fans can decide if this is the case.

If a wrestler doesnt have that something special, they need years of paying their dues. HBK and Bret Hart are two prime examples of this. Both guys made it to the very very top of the WWF ladder. It took them a hell of a lot longer than the five minutes Punk has been here though. These guys wanted it and didnt stop until they earned it. Everyone respected these guys through sheer weight of consistent performance and longevity. Punk on the other hand, seems to have stuck his hand out pretty early on, waiting for the status to be given to him. He seems to think that a few years of taking bumps in a bingo hall in front of dozen or so virgins has made him an icon.

[Mr. Tambourine Man]

Just watched the show yesterday. Great job WWE. Not only did you keep the good momentum going after WM, but you upped the ante with a really wild pull-apart tonight. Daniel Bryan was also an awesome heel.

[Turley]

Daniel Bryan was also an awesome heel.

and he now faces a big challenge because WWEs track record with heels that start getting face pops is horrendous. They usually decide to turn them face with no warning and this really stunts the character. CM Punk is a recent example and MVP is one I havent forgiven them for.

[Qore The Conqueror]

I don't remember being that excited for a segment, on a long long time, that slap to Lesnar looked like it really hurt, and the punch, just awesome, it really looks like both Cena and Lesnar hate each other...

Talking about Brock wrestling too soon, well, why not?; it's never too soon to see him back in action, he is just a beast and a HUGE draw, it is a must o use him as soon as they can, why wait two, three months? (or even more), it worked with The Rock, using that same formula with Brock (even if they don't hold Brock for a year), it would be boring, IMO...

The rest of the show was good, too bad people wasn't into Punk's promo, it was a good, intense promo... Lord Tensai looked brutal these past two weeks, let's hope WWE push him on the right direction...

[thethirdwarren]

and he now faces a big challenge because WWEs track record with heels that start getting face pops is horrendous. They usually decide to turn them face with no warning and this really stunts the character. CM Punk is a recent example and MVP is one I havent forgiven them for.

Exactly my point. Punk had everything going for him to be the top guy. Even a win against Cena. And then WWE screwed it up, not Punk. They booked him as a face and he has to go out there and do it or not have a job. It killed all of his momentum. now he's just another boring face, because WWE doesn't know how to build a face people care about anymore. But he has everything it takes to be at the top. If the WWE squanders it, it's their fault, not his. Some people are just better at playing heels and vice versa. Triple H is a terrible face imo, and if he was pushed like that during his rise to popularity, no amount of pushing would have made me and a lot of people like the guy. Punk has always been a better heel.

I love how most of the WWE's biggest stars, including Austin and Rock, say that the most realistic character is one based somewhat on that person's personality. Punk just comes off as a bad guy, and should be used like that. Same thing with Edge. He was a great heel and he put on some great matches. He deserved to be on the position he was in no matter how he got there. Who cares what happened with Lita? Who cares if I don't think I would like the guy in person? I only care about what these guys do in the ring, and Edge was a great heel. I really hate Cena's character and in ring work, but I respect his dedication and the work he puts in. I'm not just going to say anyone who likes Cena is stupid. To each their own.

And agreed about Shelton. But after so long of floundering and not being given opportunities, which is important in the wrestling business, I understand why his heart wasn't in it at the end. Same with Carlito. If you work hard for a long time with nothing coming from it, I'm sure most of us would start losing interest. I think Kofi will be in the same boat too soon. To bust your ass just to see the WWE push Mason Ryan's and Brodus Clay's of the world or bring in older talent and put them over you instantly has to be disheartening. Not saying Rock and Lesnar need to come back at the bottom of course, but if I killed myself and always saw my opportunities going elsewhere I'd star phoning it in too eventually.

[Darth Shizzel]

I think what truly stuffed CM Punk up was his feud with Triple H and Nash that cluster of a match at night of champions not to mention being pinned 4 ppvs in a row and losing the wwe title which he shouldnt have not that early anyway.

Triple H didn't do the right thing by not putting Punk over and Punk should've at least been able to face and beat Nash but nope Hunter has to have the spotlight as per usual.

As for Sheltain I think the big mistake was turning him.heel and giving him the losing streak not to mention his momma urgh.

[Maximo]

losing the wwe title which he shouldnt have not that early anyway.

Please read what you've written, before you post it. It gets annoying after a while, your my age for crying out load.

Do you mean he got the WWE title to early?
If so are you joking?
Both Cena and Batista won the World titles after just 3 years of being in the WWE, after only 2 years of training.
Sure CM Punk won the World title after only 2 years of being in the E (2008), but he worked about 10 years in the indies before that.

I not saying he deserves the title, he doesn't, he's belittled every company he's worked for after kissing ass, he's a self righteous asshole.
But he put enough work into his ring craft over the years it can't be said he didn't work for it and that its "too early."
He's 33, a year younger then Lesnar and Cena and your not saying it was early for them?

Whatsupwidat?

[Darth Shizzel]

Was writing on a phone my bad, I meant to say that Punk should not have lost the title so early to Alberto.

[Maximo]

Alright, get out of that habit dude otherwise you will become a OWW junkie, who just posts rubbish 10 times a day just because it feels good.
Your phone is a needle waiting to get you addicted.