The Rock Battling Bitter Backstage Resentment From the WWE Locker Room

[Darth Shizzel]

Ladies make love not war

[metfan51]

Nothing wrong with some back and forth banter. I'm waiting for awards season to come around. I promise Shocky and Turley that I'll vote Most Hated Member for one of them if they do the same for me.

[Darth Shizzel]

Yeah I'm trying for sole funniest member 2013

[Shockage]

Before or after he was booed? in the 80s he was a face if you couldn't be over as a face something was wrong. nWo Era he did a flip and was fresh, something he needed to do badly. So your telling me without the Beer, Middle finger, swearing, and crazy wild edge Austin still would have been the top dog? Had the nation not been around forcing the Rock to take command would he have gone above and beyond? Are you saying the Goof Ball Rocky Maivia would have been the star? I think not!

I can blame the PG era till it is gone. Once there is contrast to which you can see a character then you know if it is the era or the wrestler. Here is what i know: ROH- Punk and the freedom to do and say what he wanted and was over insanely, WWE- Held at the PG rating not over except for the one time he was allowed to cut loose. Stop the PG era and if he is not over after time then I will stop blaming the era.

It showed that Hogan could adapt with the times and to any environment. But oh no, let's wrap CM Punk in bubble wrap and treat him delicately. It's not his fault that he can't make his opportunities into successes.

[Darth Shizzel]

Bear in mind late 2011 to now was the true main event time for CM Punk the problem was during that time he was being overshadowed by Cena, Rock, Undertaker, Triple H and Lesnar during the early part of his title reign then he went full heel when he should've been tweener.

[The Indy Junkie]

Ladies make love not war

If I wanted to Make Love I would go to my wife.

It showed that Hogan could adapt with the times and to any environment. But oh no, let's wrap CM Punk in bubble wrap and treat him delicately. It's not his fault that he can't make his opportunities into successes.

Adapt to any enviroment? He was the same character from the 80's till mid 96. He used the same dead move set going from WWF to WCW. All he changed is his arrogance was shown. And they worked it to death in less than 2 years. And that is how we find him now either he is Hulk or Hollywood he has not made a change to his personality to change with times since 96. His philosophy be the Immortal Hogan face till the end or be the heel Hollywood. don't expand on either. He doesn't adapt he clings till he can't get anymore from it. The fans were against him towards the end of his WWF time, Shortly after he went into WCW, not long after nWo started, and he still is proving himself a useless turd. He adapts to squat.

Yes make his opportunity in a company that has fired a African American guy over one line on TV. Has a wrestler apologize almost every week over something that was written for him to say. Yes he can completely be edgy and suffer no repercussions for doing so, note the sarcasm.

[Darth Shizzel]

Have to agree there Hogan was staler then John Cena when he was full time active he just had a better connection with the crowd.

[Shockage]

Adapt to any enviroment? He was the same character from the 80's till mid 96. He used the same dead move set going from WWF to WCW. All he changed is his arrogance was shown. And they worked it to death in less than 2 years. And that is how we find him now either he is Hulk or Hollywood he has not made a change to his personality to change with times since 96. His philosophy be the Immortal Hogan face till the end or be the heel Hollywood. don't expand on either. He doesn't adapt he clings till he can't get anymore from it. The fans were against him towards the end of his WWF time, Shortly after he went into WCW, not long after nWo started, and he still is proving himself a useless turd. He adapts to squat.

Hogan is the man. Verne Gagne didn't think so, that's why his company wasn't able to recover after not fiving Hogan the title and what led to his promotion closing down, and Verne was pro-pro wrestling. That kind of ignorance was dangerous for a wrestling promotion, and stupid for fans. Hogan still draws whether the hardcore fans like it or not. As an international fan, we didn't get WCW until Hogan and co came aboard in '94. The same happens 17 years later with the arrival of TNA on our TVs as Hogan joins. Wrestling purists can deny Hogan's drawing power until they're blue in the face, but they don't speak on behalf of the TV networks and the casual fans. CM Punk just isn't on that level. CM Punk is an undersized scab! CM Punk is more vanilla midget than Micro Championship Wrestling. The awareness that Hulk Hogan as the WWF's forefront brought to mainstream is enormous. Wrestling purists can hang onto their 'starving artists' mindset and wrestle for their own vanity than wrestle for people, but that kind of crap will rarely make it in the history books, and 50 years from now, fans won't care.

[The Indy Junkie]

Hogan is the man. Verne Gagne didn't think so, that's why his company wasn't able to recover after not fiving Hogan the title and what led to his promotion closing down, and Verne was pro-pro wrestling. That kind of ignorance was dangerous for a wrestling promotion, and stupid for fans. Hogan still draws whether the hardcore fans like it or not. As an international fan, we didn't get WCW until Hogan and co came aboard in '94. The same happens 17 years later with the arrival of TNA on our TVs as Hogan joins. Wrestling purists can deny Hogan's drawing power until they're blue in the face, but they don't speak on behalf of the TV networks and the casual fans. CM Punk just isn't on that level. CM Punk is an undersized scab! CM Punk is more vanilla midget than Micro Championship Wrestling. The awareness that Hulk Hogan as the WWF's forefront brought to mainstream is enormous. Wrestling purists can hang onto their 'starving artists' mindset and wrestle for their own vanity than wrestle for people, but that kind of crap will rarely make it in the history books, and 50 years from now, fans won't care.

Oh don't go with old "Verne failed because he didn't give Hogan his time," Remember I wrote the argument that showed why Verne failed. His stupidity went deeper than one man. As I always say one man does not a company make. Hogan still draws you say? Maybe for a very small period of time then he is just like the usually moldy oldy giving nothing and getting paid for it. WCW is dead my friend and TNA looks to already being on the ropes. I am not denying his Drawing power I am showing that it has a shelf life. So your whole argument is against CM Punk's size? News Flash SHOCKY the world is changing. Watching one over sized oaf battle another over sized oaf is BORING! Watching a guy CM Punk's size take on Ziggler is high speed hard imapct and can actually entertain. When all you have is muscle masses there is no amazement. We know Cena, Lesnar, and any guy their size can slam Big Show sized guys it gets dull. But Punk hitting you out of nowhere with a move can be impressive. Smaller and faster is what the future brings.

[Darth Shizzel]

Shock I don't know about New Zealand but Australia had TNA on foxtel around the 2008 when Samoa Joe had the belt I remember because I watched it at my grandma's Sting layed out AJ Styles with a bat that night it was before Resolution I think.

[Shockage]

That's because Australia is a big nation. It's easy to get the large markets, however the full effect of the craze isn't complete until it hits the smaller nations, and in my case being an ethnic minority when people who speak English as a second language know the name Hulk Hogan.

[The Indy Junkie]

That's because Australia is a big nation. It's easy to get the large markets, however the full effect of the craze isn't complete until it hits the smaller nations, and in my case being an ethnic minority when people who speak English as a second language know the name Hulk Hogan.

Well when it is force fed to you from 83 to 99 how can you not?

[Shockage]

Oh don't go with old "Verne failed because he didn't give Hogan his time," Remember I wrote the argument that showed why Verne failed. His stupidity went deeper than one man. As I always say one man does not a company make. Hogan still draws you say? Maybe for a very small period of time then he is just like the usually moldy oldy giving nothing and getting paid for it. WCW is dead my friend and TNA looks to already being on the ropes. I am not denying his Drawing power I am showing that it has a shelf life. So your whole argument is against CM Punk's size? News Flash SHOCKY the world is changing. Watching one over sized oaf battle another over sized oaf is BORING! Watching a guy CM Punk's size take on Ziggler is high speed hard imapct and can actually entertain. When all you have is muscle masses there is no amazement. We know Cena, Lesnar, and any guy their size can slam Big Show sized guys it gets dull. But Punk hitting you out of nowhere with a move can be impressive. Smaller and faster is what the future brings.

If anyone can see the world change, I can assure it's not an American who isn't in touch with the world.

[Shockage]

Well when it is force fed to you from 83 to 99 how can you not?

Force fed on you? Do you speak for the masses? Name me example where fans were forced to watch WWF and were told not to watch the other feds.

[The Indy Junkie]

If anyone can see the world change, I can assure it's not an American who isn't in touch with the world.

I watch Indy and international all the time. One thing I have noticed the bigger boys are fewer in number. The smaller are getting power and main stream exposure. Hard hitting faster pace is ruling the world. Hogan in his prime would be out of breath trying to keep up with guys who rule portions of the bigger organizations, including in your precious New Zealand.

Force fed on you? Do you speak for the masses? Name me example where fans were forced to watch WWF and were told not to watch the other feds.

Yes I have been appointed by the masses as their main representative. WWF force fed no, Hogan force fed to the moon. 1983 to 1993 Hogan was on TV and PPV for the WWF. If he wasn't in the main event he was given the time to be seen over and over. He got more time than Savage while Savage was champ. He and Sid were the main event of one WM while Savage and Flair were battling for the title. His first show in WCW he was champion over shadowing Flair! The only times he was not being put in front of a screen was when he was out of the business. If he was hurt and update on Hogan showed up. When he was not a champ he had some storyline that put him on TV even if he shouldn't have been the center of attention. Even now, he doesn't need to be the center of attention but his daughter is going with Bully and the Aces and 8's are breathing down his neck. He doesn't need to be involved with one and apparently he needs the light.

[Goldie79]

Punk is all over that list, being in six segments. If I'm doing my math right, he's one segment behind only John Cena for the top spot.

Interesting list of stats Mr.T however it was obvious Punk was going to feature highly in that list because he was champion for the entire calander year, and would have been in the main event spot for the majority of RAW episodes.

Punk is not the drawcard that the WWE require right now. Though he is entertaining to many of the wrestling die-hard fans... he doesn't seem to connect with the causal fans (the fans who come in and watch when something is hot and turn away and watch another sport when they get bored).
In 2011 Punk would often cut alot of 'insider' promos.... (such as previous identitys wrestlers had or real life issues reported amongst the Smark forums) which wrestling die-hards would understand... but the casual fan would have no idea what he was talking about, and go over the heads.

Punk may retain alot of the existing fanbase but is not reaching out to a wider audience, bringing back the casual fan. (and you can bet that the Rock did just that with his recent matches).
The PG era may well play a part... the watered down product has lost the edge it had 10-12 years ago...but the WWE also need a richer talent roster with more guys who can connect with a wider audience than just the die-hard wrestling fans

[AJ]

the fans who come in and watch when something is hot and turn away and watch another sport when they get bored

Don't you just hate those jackasses? They think they know big game where in reality they know squat about WRESTLING

[Goldie79]

Yes I have been appointed by the masses as their main representative. WWF force fed no, Hogan force fed to the moon. 1983 to 1993 Hogan was on TV and PPV for the WWF. If he wasn't in the main event he was given the time to be seen over and over. He got more time than Savage while Savage was champ. He and Sid were the main event of one WM while Savage and Flair were battling for the title. His first show in WCW he was champion over shadowing Flair! The only times he was not being put in front of a screen was when he was out of the business. If he was hurt and update on Hogan showed up. When he was not a champ he had some storyline that put him on TV even if he shouldn't have been the center of attention. Even now, he doesn't need to be the center of attention but his daughter is going with Bully and the Aces and 8's are breathing down his neck. He doesn't need to be involved with one and apparently he needs the light.

The thing is though... it worked for Hogan. The WWE was more one dimensional back then in the kayfabe era. Vince had a plan to build his company and maximise his revenue... if a formula (Hogan) wasn't broke then why fix it?
There was no internet to complain about who gets pushed.... and the kiddies fanbase lapped up everything they saw onscreen and loved Hogan

If you want to split hairs what about Bruno? A combined 12 years for 2 world title reigns? I doubt that would ever happen in the internet era... but Bruno was pushed even longer than Hogan

It wasn't much different with Austin and Rock... watching back then... they dominated promos and segment time on a show.
Why? becasue they were the guys that brought the money in.

The thing is now there isn't one star who is the 'golden goose' that Hogan/Bruno/Austin/Rock were.... so screen time is divided more eveningly amongst a set of wrestlers who are not major drawcards

[Darth Shizzel]

And that part falls onto the wrestlers they need to do stuff away from the script mix it up a bit Cena could get serious I haven't even heard the champ is here for a long time (maybe because he hasn't been champ for a while but still), Sheamus could get serious as well no more Irish Jokes he's got good promo skills he just needs to use them.

Daniel Brian and CM Punk have characters and are developing them soon Brian will be able to stand on his own without Kane as a good upper midcard guy.

Miz needs to develop a better babyface role he could play a heelish face that always works.

Orton well Orton hasn't changed his character since 2009 and hasn't been good since his legend killer days.

just some of the people who need to start thinking outside the box and these are the draws of the E.

[Mighty Boosh]

As much as I like Punk I have to agree with Turley yes he had a decent reign but Punk wasn't getting people to tune in if anything he actually dropped viewers.

Are you kidding? The drop in ratings is because Raw is now three hours. Did the rating increase because of Punk? No, probably not, but Punk kept the show interesting, hell Punk (with help from Heyman) carried Raw. Not only did he go out and keep it fresh and entertaining each night, he gave Cena and Ryback something to work off. So I think it's ridiculous to say he dropped viewers, as a heel he got huge reactions every night, was hard to predict, gave the faces plenty to work off, got guys like Ryback over, and until now with The Rock's return he was the highlight of Raw every week - and that's even when WWE wanted it to be Cena. He may have been lackluster as a face but in his heel run he carried the show, week in week out.

[Shockage]

This scene from Jerry McGuire applies to the haters resenting the Rock