Chris Jericho on Royal Rumble Return, Defends Triple H Over Bret Hart Comments

[Shockage]

That's still cowardly, Chris Jericho has no dignity.

[Darth Shizzel]

So your gonna tell me if someone was bagging your boss you wouldn't defend him, ite about loyalty the E made Jericho into a massive star why wouldnt he be loyal it has nothing to do with his bravery or lack of.

[Shockage]

If someone was bagging my boss, I wouldn't have an opinion on it. There's loyalty, then there's cowardly!

[Goldie79]

Have to disagree I have followed Jericho's career since his WCW days and he is an amazing wrestler he was better then Bret in every way shape or form except muscle size he could talk better, wrestle better and doesn't go on about being screwed every 5 minutes.

Chris Jericho was a good worker... but Bret is highly regarded as one of the best ever. Watch some of Brets matches from his singles prime from 1991-97. Hes top drawer.
Jericho is a better talker granted.... but aren't we talking about Bret and Chris differing on the subject of wrestling ability? in this topic.
And Bret moaning about being screwed has nothing to do with judging his wrestling ability.

[Shockage]

Bret is a Professor at the University of Professional Wrestling. Chris Jericho has barely reached his masters.

[Darth Shizzel]

Goldie the comment about Jerichos ability was in relation to you saying Bret was a better worker.

[Turley]

Goldie the comment about Jerichos ability was in relation to you saying Bret was a better worker.

and Bret didnt get screwed until the latter stages of his career so either judge him on his whole career (which you clearly arent or else the screwed comment wouldnt have come up) or keep quiet because making statements such as have followed Jericho's career since his WCW days and he is an amazing wrestler he was better then Bret in every way shape or form will cause people to totally disregard anything you ever say.

Stick to comments in the chatbox about your apparent length, theres more chance of that being true than the stuff you are talking about here. Find me one list that has Bret lower then Jericho in terms of "work" or wrestling or whatever you want to call it....

[Goldie79]

Goldie the comment about Jerichos ability was in relation to you saying Bret was a better worker.

You brought up Brets moaning though not me?

Anyway thats the funniest thing I've read on here for a while!

Chris Jericho is a good all rounder, but hes not as good as he thinks he is.
I have a magazine interview from 2006, where Chris described himself on the same plateau as Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in legends status.
At that point in time he'd only had 1 world title reign and had been contesting for the IC strap for the previous 4 years.

Jericho has always been in that mix of guys just below the top 3 superstars. Always has been. Always will be.

[Mr. Tambourine Man]

Maybe Jericho really believes Hunter was great?

[The Canadian Superstar]

Chris Jericho is a pansy.

You are so adorable sometimes :3

Reading this article has made me rethink my opinion on Triple H. For the most part, his standard wrestling matches bore me to tears, at least the ones after his 2002 return. But when it comes to flat out brawls, he can be really entertaining. A good example of this is his match with Lesnar at SummerSlam. When the old wrestling formula gets tossed out the window and it turns into a street fight, he actually manages to keep my attention. Now I don't know if this warrants his reputation of being "Great", but he's not horrible, at least when you put a steel chair in his hands. At the end of the day, I think he is exactly what he portrays himself as: He's a barbarian. He's not one for standard one on one affairs, he's a brute, a caveman, who's all about smashing his opponents to pieces. And that can be fun to watch. He's not up there with the best, but he's not the worst. Just don't expect any 5 star wrestling classics from him.

[Shockage]

Chris Jericho plays for Fozzie, but he's loyal to Gonzo.

[metfan51]

I don't see anything he said that was bad or kissing ass. Triple H has had a lot of really good to great matches. Bret is one of my favorite wrestlers ever as he was THE guy I watched growing up. I always had Bret above Shawn Michaels and he did help keep the WWE's head floating above the rising water before WCW crumbled. Bret is a sour guy though, and it's the truth. He keeps bringing up Montreal even after he said that he got over it. He was one of the best ever and I respect his views but sometimes he says some really weird things. Remember, Bret thought Melina was the best wrestler in the world a few years ago. Not the best Diva or best woman wrestler, but the best WRESTLER, male or female in the world. He lost a little credibility with that one.

[Joey Idol]

Jericho couldn't tell a story like Bret or even have half the psychology about wrestling. So Darth ♥♥♥♥zle where you get off saying y2j is better in every shape way and form. If your a real wrestling fan you would never say something like that its not even just opinion Bret is possibly the greatest in ring story teller ever love him or hate him all fans alike know this. Plus Jericho woulda.never made it in this biz if it wasn't for guys like Bret paving the way.

[Goldie79]

Jerciho even trained at the Harts camp with Lance Storm in 1990

[Shockage]

Obviously Jericho missed a few camp meetings.

[Joey Idol]

Let's face it Jericho can only call himself the best in the world today because benoit and Eddie died and Bret and Shawn retired and no one remembers angle cuz no one cares about Tna.

[Goldie79]

Let's face it Jericho can only call himself the best in the world today because benoit and Eddie died and Bret and Shawn retired and no one remembers angle cuz no one cares about Tna.

Does Jericho really say that?

At age 42... good as he was... Jericho is arguably past his best.
Thats not to say hes no good....but what 42 year would be athletic as they were at 28?
Theres no remedy for Father Time.

[Darth Shizzel]

Jericho maybe past his best but he's still better then half the current roster.

[Veritas]

However by the time he became involved in a relationship with Stephanie he played the political strings even more ruthlessly than his buddy Shawn Michaels did in the 90s.

Ever see the McMahon DVD? In it both Vince and Steph go on record to say that VINCE was in love with Triple H's attitude, work ethic, in-ring ability, and overall character long before he became involved with Steph. With or without the boss's daughter, Hunter would've been a huge megastar with a very long run in the company.

When all the other Attitude Era stars (with the exception of Taker) took their balls and went home, what did Hunter do? He stayed and helped carry the company.

I LOL at all the fools who think the only reason Hunter was as big as he was for as long as he was is because he married Steph. Hunter was always destined to be a major player in the future of the WWE, he just happened to pick up a powerful spouse on the way.

Hunter IS an all-time great and he's had tons of great matches. Bret's a bitter, whiny fool.

[Turley]

I agree that he would have been a big star without Stephanie's help. I think hbk played a big part in that.

I do however draw the line at calling HHH great. The common consensus is that he is a level below the greats.

[Goldie79]

Ever see the McMahon DVD? In it both Vince and Steph go on record to say that VINCE was in love with Triple H's attitude, work ethic, in-ring ability, and overall character long before he became involved with Steph. With or without the boss's daughter, Hunter would've been a huge megastar with a very long run in the company.

I recall that your a major Triple H mark. Its been since we've had a debate hasn't it?
I don't dislike the guy.... but I think hes good rather than great. He's a good all rounder but doesn't excel in any area.
Yes I have seen the McMahon DVD... I own it. That DVD is so 'Kiss-ass Vince' I sometimes want to throw up watching it.

When all the other Attitude Era stars (with the exception of Taker) took their balls and went home, what did Hunter do? He stayed and helped carry the company.

Austin may have walked out in 2002... but he had to retire in 2003. Foley retired (in terms of a full schedule) in 2000.
You can't blame guys who have to retire. Theres perhaps only the Rock who was a major star from that era who chose to leave WWE with his health intact. Even Kurt Angle was released against his will after Vince became concerned at his well being.
I doubt Triple H was sad to see the likes of Austin/Rock leave because that wiped out his compertition.

I LOL at all the fools who think the only reason Hunter was as big as he was for as long as he was is because he married Steph. Hunter was always destined to be a major player in the future of the WWE, he just happened to pick up a powerful spouse on the way.

You shouldn't resort to namecalling if people simply disagree with your point.
Anyway for the record I'll say that Triple H DID deserve his top liner status from late 1999-2001. In 2000 he was on top of his game.... and (with a big assist from Mick Foley) deservedly climbed to the top of the ladder.
However.... from 2002 ... for the next 5 years onwards, the mega Triple H push was a hinderance. I'm not saying he didn't deserve one of the top spots... but he was not the guy WWE should have built the promotion around. He was never a major draw. This period was Triple H overkill.
He was never going to be as big a star as Austin or Rock ... he lacks the necessary charisma.
In the early/mid 2000s he was in a position to use his clout to bury talent (ask Booker T), handpicked the guys he thought were worthy of a push (usually his friends who posed no position to his spot) and giving the lockeroom negative 'prep talks' about how they weren't getting over... when perhaps the biggest obstacle was the guy preaching stood right in front of them.
This is the period I was originally referring about.... not todays Triple H or the Triple H from the Attitude era.
Did Triple H deserve to be a top guy?... Yes. But the push was just too severe and too over the top

Hunter IS an all-time great and he's had tons of great matches. Bret's a bitter, whiny fool.

History will remember Bret Hart as being a better wrestler than Triple H.

[Turley]

Bret and HHH will never be in the same league. No doubt bret saw HHH in full flight in late 1997. Foley did his best to get HHH over but his runs always seemed like edges
Did. It always seemed forced and was overshadowed by something else on the card. HHH was
Always good in the flat times

[Veritas]

I recall that your a major Triple H mark. Its been since we've had a debate hasn't it?

'Tis true, sir. And I'll start this post off by apologizing for the "fools" comment, I certainly meant no disrespect by it. To me, that word is just a joke and I use it all the time. But if you took offense, like I said, I'm big enough to say I'm sorry. Let's move on now.

Yes I have seen the McMahon DVD... I own it. That DVD is so 'Kiss-ass Vince' I sometimes want to throw up watching it.

Yeah, it is a "Mr. McMahon is the Greatest" kind of thing but I also happen to think there's alot of merit to some of the things that are said in it, you just have to read between the lines. The fact that several people go on record as saying that "Vince loved Triple H first" is noteworthy in my opinion. Alot of ignorant haters (and I'm certainly not meaning you here GB) like to say that the only reason Triple H was elevated to the position he was is because he married Steph. That is such BS it's not even funny to me. Hunter was a 3x World Champ before his personal relationship with Steph even began and, as they say in the DVD, Vince saw greatness in him long before anyone else (with the exception of maybe HBK).

Austin may have walked out in 2002... but he had to retire in 2003. Foley retired (in terms of a full schedule) in 2000.
You can't blame guys who have to retire. Theres perhaps only the Rock who was a major star from that era who chose to leave WWE with his health intact. Even Kurt Angle was released against his will after Vince became concerned at his well being.
I doubt Triple H was sad to see the likes of Austin/Rock leave because that wiped out his compertition.

I never said I was blaming them (maybe the ball thing was out of line, eh?) but it is a fact that, come '05, most of the major stars from just 5 years ago were nothing but memories. There were only 2 people appearing on WWE TV with regularity from the Attitude Era and that was Triple H and 'Taker. Vince certainly wasn't going to cast aside proven commodities in favor of a couple flavors of the week. They'd proven themselves to be big time players week in and week out, the earned their spots, they deserved to keep them.

However.... from 2002 ... for the next 5 years onwards, the mega Triple H push was a hinderance. I'm not saying he didn't deserve one of the top spots... but he was not the guy WWE should have built the promotion around. He was never a major draw. This period was Triple H overkill.
He was never going to be as big a star as Austin or Rock ... he lacks the necessary charisma.
In the early/mid 2000s he was in a position to use his clout to bury talent (ask Booker T), handpicked the guys he thought were worthy of a push (usually his friends who posed no position to his spot) and giving the lockeroom negative 'prep talks' about how they weren't getting over... when perhaps the biggest obstacle was the guy preaching stood right in front of them.
This is the period I was originally referring about.... not todays Triple H or the Triple H from the Attitude era.
Did Triple H deserve to be a top guy?... Yes. But the push was just too severe and too over the top

I want to preface these comments by saying that, while I'll be comparing Triple H to Hogan in one specific area over these next few lines, money generated will NOT be it. The only person who could realistically stand on par with Hogan in a dollar-to-dollar conversation is Austin. I just wanted to put that out there so a certain few people don't pick up on one commentary and try to say I'm calling Hunter the next Hogan. OK? Moving on.

Everyone who's a Triple H hater always likes to bring up Booker when talking about who he buried in the mid-naughts. My response to that is - what was there to bury? He was not that good in the ring, on the mic, and his personality as a "wrestling gangsta" just didn't connect with people, or at least didn't connect with me or anyone I knew. I can honestly not name a single person I knew who was a Booker fan in these days. Booker had his chance to get over in a non-Triple H environment in WCW and guess what, he didn't do it there either.

Everyone likes to say that Triple H held talent down in this time because he wouldn't let them pick up clean wins over him but, in the '80s when Hogan did the EXACT same thing, people like to say Hogan's opponents picked up a rub just by being in the ring with him. I call bologna, you can't have it both ways. One instance can NOT be a burial when the other is a rub. It's hypocritical to differentiate between the two instances.

To say the promotion shouldn't have built around him because he wasn't a major draw is also a nonrelevant statement in my opinion. The fact is, after Austin, NOBODY was a major draw. In the mid-'00s, just like today, people didn't go to wrestling shows to see certain people, the business had changed. It was and still is the WWE BRAND that draw people in. I'll go out on a limb and say that Jeff Hardy is a (slight) needle mover for TNA but in WWE, nobody is a draw outside the brand. John Cena, the biggest "star" in the world these days is proof of this. Whenever Cena gets hurt and misses shows, the ratings and buyrates show absolutely no significant differences. People don't watch because they connect with the wrestlers like in times past, they watch because of the WWE brand.

Hunter was responsible for the rise of Batista, a man who was a legit money generating machine overseas from the time Hunter made him a star to the time he left the company, where's his credit for that? Hunter was responsible for the grooming of Randy Orton, one of the top 3 stars of the brand in the current era, where's his credit for that? Hunter put Benoit over clean on the grandest stage of them all, despite Benoit not being a draw ever (at one time he was the best pure wrestler in the world but the fact is, he didn't mean squat at the box office), where's his credit for that?

Hogan gets all the credit in the world but the fact is, in his first 10 years in the E he put exactly one man (Warrior) over. He didn't even make anyone else look like a threat. Hunter did, in spades. And he gets absolutely no credit at all for it just because he happened to marry into the family who runs the company he works for. He did it AFTER he was a star, mind you, but it doesn't matter - people still bury him for things I see as being done in the best interest of the company.

History will remember Bret Hart as being a better wrestler than Triple H.

Sure it will but it's been proven that history isn't always correct. Bret was a fantastic wrestler but he had no charisma or personality. To say otherwise is just being a mark. Triple H did. Bret is certainly the better wrestler but Hunter is the better superstar and in the WWE from the Attitude Era on, that's what mattered.

(Thanks GB, that was fun.)

[Goldie79]

'Tis true, sir. And I'll start this post off by apologizing for the "fools" comment, I certainly meant no disrespect by it. To me, that word is just a joke and I use it all the time. But if you took offense, like I said, I'm big enough to say I'm sorry. Let's move on now.

No worries. I wasn't offended. It was just a point.

Yeah, it is a "Mr. McMahon is the Greatest" kind of thing but I also happen to think there's alot of merit to some of the things that are said in it, you just have to read between the lines. The fact that several people go on record as saying that "Vince loved Triple H first" is noteworthy in my opinion. Alot of ignorant haters (and I'm certainly not meaning you here GB) like to say that the only reason Triple H was elevated to the position he was is because he married Steph. That is such BS it's not even funny to me. Hunter was a 3x World Champ before his personal relationship with Steph even began and, as they say in the DVD, Vince saw greatness in him long before anyone else (with the exception of maybe HBK).

In 2000 Tripper was wrestler of the year. Yes that was before he got it on with Steph (which I believe was mid 2001 when Chyna bolted). His success at the time was justified by being the best heel in the business for the first 3 title runs. I have always said this about Hunter.
As I mentioned before... in the post 'Hunter & Steph' era... Hunter did deserve to be one of the top guys... but his push was too exagerated, monsterous and overbearing.

Everyone who's a Triple H hater always likes to bring up Booker when talking about who he buried in the mid-naughts. My response to that is - what was there to bury? He was not that good in the ring, on the mic, and his personality as a "wrestling gangsta" just didn't connect with people, or at least didn't connect with me or anyone I knew. I can honestly not name a single person I knew who was a Booker fan in these days. Booker had his chance to get over in a non-Triple H environment in WCW and guess what, he didn't do it there either.

True Booker is often used as the example... but I still see the pinfall of the WM19 match particularly cringeworthy to watch.

Everyone likes to say that Triple H held talent down in this time because he wouldn't let them pick up clean wins over him but, in the '80s when Hogan did the EXACT same thing, people like to say Hogan's opponents picked up a rub just by being in the ring with him.

Hogan can be found guilty of doing the same things... I suppose all guys who get to the top do to some degree.
However Hogan was a much bigger superstar than Tripper.... for all the headaches Hogan caused WWE management, he was a goldmine at the box office. Surely it is more justifiable to appease Hogan than it was to appease Tripper?

To say the promotion shouldn't have built around him because he wasn't a major draw is also a nonrelevant statement in my opinion. The fact is, after Austin, NOBODY was a major draw. In the mid-'00s, just like today, people didn't go to wrestling shows to see certain people, the business had changed.

Surely the Rock and Mick Foley were draws in the period? Even the Undertaker was no slouch as selling tickets? My point was the Triple H was not on the same level as these guys. Triple H was often the guy who worked with the guys that drew the money.
Tripper vs Rock drew. Triple H vs Foley drew. Triple H vs Shawn Michaels drew.
However when you put Tripper with another guy? ... no it doesn't work.
Austin or Rock could wrestle any midcarder and were still automatic draws.

I take your point that fans today watch the WWE brand over any particular superstars.... but would Tripper come close to outdrawing Cena or CM Punk? I doubt it.

Hunter was responsible for the rise of Batista, a man who was a legit money generating machine overseas from the time Hunter made him a star to the time he left the company, where's his credit for that? Hunter was responsible for the grooming of Randy Orton, one of the top 3 stars of the brand in the current era, where's his credit for that? Hunter put Benoit over clean on the grandest stage of them all, despite Benoit not being a draw ever (at one time he was the best pure wrestler in the world but the fact is, he didn't mean squat at the box office), where's his credit for that?

The thing with Tripper (in his reign of terror)... was that a guy had to meet his seal of approval first before joining the main event club.
He handpicked 2 prospects (Orton and Batista) to join his Evolution stable. Alot of the top spots were occupied by Trippers buddys (Shawn, Batista, Orton)
It was difficult for younger wrestlers to get over because the WWE wouldnt allow them to get over. It was hard to build breakout stars with Hunter always there in the background because he had such a big say in who could or couldn't climb the ladder, and had the power to undermine anyone he wanted.
And as I've mentioned before in this thread... I am referring to the Hunter of 2002-2007. Now he has taken a backstep, I think younger wrestlers today have the opportunity to make their own breaks. Its in their own hands

I think by the time Hunter put Benoit over at WM20 he was stung by alot of the criticism he had recieved in the wrestling media.
However as Benoit suffered a charisma bypass.... he was no threat whatsoever to Trippers spot Benoits victory was a token title win as a thankyou for wrestling so many excellent matches. As soon as he lost the title to Orton, Benoit was demoted back to the midcard where he belonged.

'
Sure it will but it's been proven that history isn't always correct. Bret was a fantastic wrestler but he had no charisma or personality. To say otherwise is just being a mark. Triple H did. Bret is certainly the better wrestler but Hunter is the better superstar and in the WWE from the Attitude Era on, that's what mattered.

Bret won't top any charisma lists.... but neither will Triple H. Tripper has always known what to say in his promos but often delivers them in a bland style.
Was Tripper the better superstar? Bret Hart was arguably the top guy in the promotion if you look back over a 5 year period from 1992-97.
He was the face of the 'New Generation' campaign and was the flagbearer of the company during those times.
When has Tripper ever been the true #1 superstar? .... regardless of the monster pushes? In the early 2000s he was behind Austin and Rock.
The next golden boy was Brock Lesnar, and after that (and currently still is) it was John Cena.

If the WWE were a hollywood movie then Triple H would be the lead character's best friend but not the lead character.

'
(Thanks GB, that was fun.)

Yes it was. I need someone to strongly debate with every now and again. Which is why I pushed your Triple H buttons (he-he)